Wisdom Master Maticintin: So we want to be attentive to each other and listen to what each other has to say. We’re bound to interrupt each other occasionally, but still we will keep a monitor on that of little resolve. What we’re looking at here is to open up the door for something that we haven’t done quite before. It’s going to be very much the same as it was, but it’s going to be very different as well. And the differences will be funneled through you and through me.



WM: See, we’ll just be talking and interacting with each other so that there’s a greater and greater understanding of each personality present and also what is needed for what we’re doing. Okay. This is very important because of its differences from the past. Hopefully new people will come in, but also I’d like to have back all of those who are waiting in the wings for me to say something. So here we go. Claire, I’ll let you introduce something there. Go ahead.



Claire Foster: What we talked about at the breakfast table?



WM: Yes. Talk about some of the things we’ve been talking about.



Claire: We talked about what didn’t work well with HÜMÜH and some changes that we might make, not only in accordance with the times, but also to step away from some of what didn’t work well with HÜMÜH. The Wisdom Master is still kind of defining some of that in relationship to the expectations placed on students. And what we had talked about, and I’m not sure that that was a conclusion, was that this next iteration of her teaching is going to have more to do with providing information on the teachings and the Dharma without expectations of the students’ performance. Is that saying that right?



WM: It is.



Claire: Okay. So we’re not looking for people to succeed or fail. We’re looking for just… we’re sharing the Wisdom Master’s inherent knowledge of the Dharma and making it available to people to do with whatever they would choose to do. And that whole push and pull and tug of, ‘is somebody making it or not making it’ is going to be disappearing in this next iteration. We talked about the importance of changing the name so that people coming back from the old era will have a new feel for — this is different. And we talked about a specific name. Do you want me to introduce that?



WM: And this specific name doesn’t have to be. It’s something that we’re presenting to you to consider. And so far I think it’s kind of interesting.



Claire: Do you want to say it? 

WM: No.

Claire: We had talked about… the first word we came up with was Dharma. And then we looked a little bit at, you know, well, that’s too short. Needs to be something more.
And then we’re looking at what the idea is, is that it’s a journey. But we didn’t want to use the word journey, but we came up with pilgrimage. So Dharma Pilgrimage is what we had talked about.



WM: Excuse me. That’s what would be the whole purpose, to make a Dharma Pilgrimage, so that we can understand what each person is feeling and where they are going spiritually. So each person will have a view of themselves, seeking what goes on inside of them, and the feelings that they carry with them as they begin to move down this trail or down that trail. And the trails, of course, are only ideas of where you’re going. And you make your own ideas.



Claire: And I think one of the most important things that I didn’t capture, but I’ll say it here, is that she said, as we were looking at this name, Dharma Pilgrimage, that all of life is a Dharma Pilgrimage. 

WM: Yes. 

Claire: And that that would be one of the one of the fundamental parts of this would be an understanding that not only is the organization Dharma Pilgrimage, but also that life itself is the Dharma Pilgrimage.



WM: It is a Dharma Pilgrimage, but it also has limitations of each person provides their own limitations so that things can’t happen. So if something is not working well in your life, then you have to realize that you’re not working well. You see, your ideas are problematic. And if your ideas are problematic, then you will suffer and go through hardships that you didn’t want to do. And it wasn’t maybe your intention to go through hardships in that way. But still, it made a present that was what you did not want. And what you want to do is to turn everything around to become what you want rather than all those things you don’t want. It’s a big task, but everybody will have that same privilege of doing that.

Marita Wadsworth: It really puts the responsibility on the person.

WM: And as you’re going through difficult times, you’ll see that all you need to do is move your foot this way or your arm that way, and things will suddenly change because you’re changing your motions. And that’s what you have to realize, that what you do in life, that’s what you’re going to live out. Okay? So you can correct and sweep away what you don’t want and bring in what you do want. It’s a new way of looking at things and hopefully, everybody will espouse them, too. It’s a beginning.



WM: Because if you’re going to follow the Dharma, and that’s really what it amounts to, you’re going to be busy all the time with your mind just focused on the Dharma itself so that whatever is appealing to you will be the Dharma. And whatever turns you off is not the Dharma. You’re not understanding it. But we’ll also look at our own selves and see things that we didn’t see before. That’s what’s important. Okay, go ahead.



Claire: Well, I didn’t really realize that I was going to be sharing everything we talked about at the breakfast table.



WM: I didn’t realize it either, I just…



Claire: The big thing that comes to my mind is just that… the importance of removing expectations. It’s a learning journey and removing expectations of teacher to student and organization to student. And also that the student doesn’t approach the whole thing with big expectations. 

WM: Yes, there’s nothing there.

Claire: There shouldn’t be that in the space at all. 



WM: You know we’re all students of the Dharma, please know that every one of us and everyone that comes into our group will be part of the Dharma. That’s important. So we have to have some ideas or thoughts or dreams of where we’re going. But each person also has to do that for themselves. So we can give you broad ideas and things like that to take as guidelines to follow. And the guidelines are important because if you don’t listen to the guidelines, what’s going to happen is you are going to detour in your own way. And if you detour in your own way, what happens is that you have made up stories to make things more comfortable for yourself. And if you do that you’re troubled. You get very troubled, and things will go amiss, they’ll go wrong. And it’s not the Dharma that’s wrong. It’s the way we would be approaching the Dharma. So we must approach the Dharma as the true source of all divine love and wisdom. Any questions? 

WM: Now, there is something else that is probably connected to this. Suppose I say to you, first of all, you have to know that I have too many things to say. You have to know that if I ask you to do something, you don’t have to do it, but you will be missing out on something. So you’ll be missing out on the guidance I would have given you. So that doesn’t mean that you have to follow it. Still, you could question me and talk to me about it, and I’ll keep talking with you and helping you understand until you do understand. And if you, if you say something to me that makes sense and something needs to be changed, I certainly would change it. You see? 

WM: So I’m not saying that everything that I say is something that is for you. I’m saying that everything that I say has possibilities for you. How about that? And that way, you won’t feel this grip inside of yourself when I say something. But you have to know that I said that for a reason. And if you don’t pay attention to it at all, then it’s just lost. And the Dharma begins to weaken in you, and it begins to weaken in others who begin to think of that same thing that you put out. You begin to see that all these problems that are existing are actually reflections of what you’re going through internally. And you will see it. You will see it on your own, I’m sure, because we’ll be united. And as long as we’re united, we will be working together.



WM: In other words, you’ll understand what I’m saying. And if you don’t, please ask. Don’t ever keep it to yourself. Please ask, not each other, because each other may not understand it, come to me and speak it, or wait until a meeting and speak it out loud in front of people. I’m not hiding anything. Okay? 

WM: So if it’s something that you’re holding inside of yourself and you’re troubled, why, it’ll usually get addressed as we’re speaking too. You probably usually have noticed that. It’s an opportunity. All of this is an opportunity. And you don’t have to take any opportunities unless you choose them. And you must always make your choices. Are you going to follow what you’re told or are you going to go on your own? And sometimes you have to go on your own in order to see if it’s true or not, you see? And when things change for the better, if you’ve gone on your own, then don’t follow what was put out. But I would suggest that you give it a try first so that you can feel what is happening inside of you and how things are cropping up to make problems for you at the same time. Or other people that you’re close to, especially family. You know, when there’s a lot of problems with family, why you have to sit still a little bit and allow yourself to perceive what is going on. You must perceive it first. Otherwise, you’re not prepared.



WM: So take your time in making decisions, and insist on that time if you need it, because it’s your life we’re talking about. Your life, my life. Not that we have the same life, I don’t mean that. We just have to be tuned in to ourselves. Now, if you begin to… the Wisdom Master asks you to do something and you persistently change it on your own without even saying so to the Wisdom Master, then you’re going to ask for chaos. Because chaos always follows the dis… — I don’t want to use this word because it’s really the most disliked word in the world — disobedient is what I was going to say. Padmasambhava used to talk about it all the time. You know, [he would say] ‘those who are disobedient to me will suffer’. And that’s what he meant. He didn’t mean that you were getting punished, you know, because you’re not getting punished, but you are bringing on some, some very uncomfortable situations in your life. And if you just pay attention to what is said and try to use it as wisdom to guide yourself, you might see immediately why that was so. You know, why Padmasambava or myself said that. You see, what was the purpose of it? You’ll see the purpose suddenly. But it takes, it takes, ah — sometimes — raw meat off of you. It makes you feel like, ‘oh, my God, I’m in trouble. You know, I don’t know what to do’. 

WM: You don’t know what to do because you haven’t been listening. And that’s what causes the trouble. It doesn’t mean that you have to follow it up until every little niche and cranny, but you might have to. That’s up to you. What you’re willing to give of yourself to learning, not to another person but to learning. But as you’re learning, you’ll begin to trust –maybe- that other person. Maybe you’ll begin to mistrust that other person. That’s something that’s up to you. If you feel that you can’t trust the other person, please don’t follow them. Don’t ever do that. Don’t ever follow somebody’s lead if you don’t believe in it. And if you need to find a belief before you can do something, then test it out somehow. You know, just ask yourself, how can I see if this is true or not?



WM: I always ask God. Now, you can ask me, you can ask Padmasabhava, you can ask anybody, any one of the leaders. But if you need to ask, because when you ask a question, the answer comes! I know you found that out in life and it’s really important. So you have to pay attention to your own feelings and your own feelings as they come in contact with someone who has developed the wisdom role in their life.



WM: Is that making sense to you? Speak up if it’s not. You’ve had difficulty with me through the years, quite a bit. And this is important that you acknowledge the fact that you went through those difficulties and the difficulties – now, you’re beginning to see through what the difficulties were and why they occurred. And you know the cause of it. And you know the cause is not because of something that I wanted you to do. It was because something you didn’t want to do, but by not wanting to do it, you gave up something that was real and correct for you, and you became entangled in anger, lust, greed, vanity and attachment. You must remember those things. And usually it’s just our ego that’s sticking out a little bit. See? Well, the ego sticking out a little bit or a lot is really just doing nothing but causing problems. And it makes your life entangled. So that’s what you don’t want because you begin to suffer.



WM: Suffering is the sole ability of evil is suffering. And you don’t want that ability. So take yourself out of it. You’re the only one that can take yourself out of it. I can only advise you. And what you do with that advice is up to you. And I’m not going to think badly of You. I’m not going to stop loving you. Ever. And so we’re both stuck with that side. You will always love me, and I will always love you. And even if you’re angry at me, you’ll still love me and I’ll still love you. Do you see? So it doesn’t matter. You’ll get it straightened out sooner or later. But if I were you, I’d take the sooner side because it’s too painful. 

WM: Okay? We can talk about anything. And we’ll be talking about these things again. Because when groups roll in, well, they have to have that information. Or maybe we can write it down. That’s what I’m hoping this recording will do. So that we can share that information with them in the immediacy of our coming together. Because they’re going to be – then– coming together. And I know that from the mail that I’ve been receiving lately, it’s coming in fast and furious. So I would like to get everybody connected when they’re ready. And that’ll be individual. And you can take your time, you can be on the path and take your time doing it at all. Because we’re not going to…



WM: It is not about the Seventh Level [Boddhisattva]. It’s about you on the Path, on the Pilgrimage. On the Pilgrimage together. And that Pilgrimage is very important because it’s your Pilgrimage. It’s not the pilgrimage, although it is the pilgrimage. But it is your Pilgrimage because you chose it. That’s why. And if you decide not to choose it anymore, go ahead and change it. But when you change it, notice if there’s a lot of trouble, if there’s a lot of trouble hitting your mind and you’re very upset, you might just step back on the Path again and say, well, this is not working well, I’m going to go over here and see if this works. And if it works, if I were you, I would carry it out as long as you can until you see another Path. And if you don’t find something that leads you more directly, don’t go there. You see? It’s a mouthful, I know. I’ve been living it a long, long time. And one day you’re going to say the same thing to somebody else. And won’t that be wonderful? Then you can be happy that you helped them. 

Marita: You know, one of the obstacles, big obstacles that I can see that’s happened in HÜMÜH in the past, that this just like it makes it nonexistent, is this idea of competition. There is no competition with this new view of… 

WM: No! No competition, because you can try anything else. You can go exploring anywhere you want. That’s your thing, your decision. I may not explore it with you because I’ve been through it too many times and I don’t care to do it again. So I might go off on my own there and just leave you alone for a while. But that doesn’t mean you can’t come to me and talk to me if you need to. You can always do that.



WM: We will be united as long as you want to be united. And as long as you want to be united why, I’ll always be there. Always. I’m already part of the Dharma now, so I can’t run away from It, It owns me. And I love It for It.  I don’t consider myself controlled by anything because the Dharma is totally free. It’s free of constriction of any kind. It’s all wisdom. Aren’t we lucky? I know I consider myself so lucky. I had to work hard for it. But it’s there now. You can’t go anywhere else. Nor would I ever want it to go anywhere else. But I can go this way or that way, that’s totally my choice. And I can go right back on the Path. One step is all it takes. Freedom. That’s what this Path is all about. Freedom. Feels good, doesn’t it? Yeah. 

WM: So I’m not going to yell at you anymore. I’m not going to say you have to do this, and you know, if nothing’s going to work, why who knows, you might stumble on some little idiosyncrasy that does work. You know? There’s so many little fractions to an inch. You just know that things are changing constantly. And as the Dharma shifts to certain things now, the…. what the Dharma teaches will always be what’s taught. But it may appear differently as to what’s happening in the world. You see? So you’ll see that. You won’t be blinded by it. You won’t say, ‘oh, that’s the Dharma says something else’, or this or this. It said something else but it’s leading you into seeing into a deeper level of the same thing. It’s always the same thing. 

WM: Life with the Dharma is the same, although its virtually different all the time. It’s always filled with excitement – I got so excited this morning as I was getting dressed because I thought, ‘gosh, it’s so exciting to see something burst out of all this bad timing and everything that we went through,’ and everybody seems to be waking up and ready to see it again. Get in there! And that’s the first thing if we can get this copied down I would like to send out this whole thing, send it out to everybody so that they can see what things are really about and decide if they want to step on the Path. Yes they can step on the path without telling me, but without telling me they won’t develop the richness of it because I can’t feed them that way. It’s like you have – there’s food but you’re never eating it. 

WM: And I have started loving eating a lot… (laughter) Claire’s been feeding me really good. I was getting pretty skinny there for a while. 

Marita: Yes, there really needs to be that back and forth, it’s not just a one way communication, there is no such thing as a one way communication…

WM: No! And I never meant for it to be a one way but I was getting – I wanted you so badly to become seventh initiates but you know, right now that doesn’t matter. Do you see? What matters is that your finding the Path – the true Path – for yourself. You’re beginning to understand how it operates. That’s what I want. If you can see how it operates you begin to make this correction and this correction. ‘Well I’m going to try this over here and see what happens’ and you try that, that doesn’t work, well then you try something else, ‘Oh!’ because as soon as you empty from one thing something else will pop inside of you. You get another idea that fast, and that other idea might be the same idea as the original one but now saw it – you couldn’t see it before. And that’s just the way we’re built, we’re built so that we can experience a lot of change so that we can become what we want to be. Such a perfect plan. I could never have thought of that, the Dharma knows that, and the Dharma feeds me all the time. Everyday, all day — and it will feed you, all day, everyday, if you allow it. I allow it, that’s the difference, just the difference between us is simply that I allow things to be learned. I will give up on something that begins to cloud my atmosphere, that’s the difference. Otherwise we’re exactly the same. 

WM: That’s real wealth, I feel like I’m wealthy. 

[Pause]

There is always enough and if you say there isn’t enough then you’d better think about the fact that you can humble yourself and ask God. I don’t mind being humbled at all. it doesn’t bother me, it never hurts my ego or anything. I go to my knees if I need to be I’ll carry on and say “Please please please please!”  I’ve been known to do that many times. How about it? It’s not the weeping that does it, it’s the feeling inside that you’re willing to do anything to take the next step. Not one particular thing but to take the next step, whatever that is. It’s the next step that leads you to the next step. And that’s why you feel so wealthy! Because you’re taking steps that is always leading you where you want to go. That to me is wealth, a pile of coins is not wealth because that’s spendable stuff and it’s gone before you know it. And as long as you cling to it thinking that that’s only thing that you need, it’s not the only thing you need. It’s one of the things that will come to you because you do need it but it’s natural, it’s a natural fact.

WM: Now this is the hardest part, I have to shut my mouth, you see? That’s enough to tell you right now. 

Give up hate so that you can claim your miraculous fate, which is enlightenment.